silverback wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 4:39 pm
There's nothing wrong with adjusting valve lash if you want to, it's just not necessary in a modern engine.
Hear ya, but here's why I'm a believer. Done many, found one or two at minimum on several bikes. In factory environment, they have their process parameters. Green engine might "wear in" a valve clearance teensy bit. Had one engine one valve with ZERO clearance. Like to think we got to it in time so the slight idle issue on that cylinder would improve, it somehow did with time, musta been right on the verge. Would have been costly to fix, 'specially up in bungie country, LOL. If that one hadn't happened, I might side with you a bit more, but prefer a comfort zone.
I think it is good to do that first check somewhere 30-40k, have nothing at minimum and you'll be good for a long while. Get anal and re-shim to above nominal, likely can leave it forever.
Keep yer stick on the ice........... (Red Green)
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can sure muffle the sound.
My first check at 33k...1 intake was at minimum or slightly out low. Never had that on my Gen1s...so I was glad to have had griff over to help me do that.
I am not trying to be a jerk. Just saying that on an engine that runs well, there is no need to tear it apart.
On a new engine there should be some clearance because the seats and valve faces will lap in a bit. Usually about 0.001-0.002". Not much more. So, on Ray's zero clearance engine, if it is running well, that is the best it coukd possibly be because it gets full lift. The valve follows the full cam profile and there is better flow through the opening. If you set the clearance on the loose side, depending on cam profile, you cam lose a considerable amount of duration and mess with overlap and cylinder scavenging which makes the engine feel spongy and not as spry. Way too much clearance makes them clatter. Grossly too much will beat up cam lobes and chip valve stems.
Too little and when the valve expands due to heat soak, it will miss on that cylinder. Left alone it will gradually miss more and more even just as the engine heats up. I had a 78 FIAT that didn't have hardened seats and this was a constant problem. With unleaded gas, the seats eroded rather quickly and a thinner shim was due. That engine would only run well for about a month. Finally there wasn't enough seat left an I had some hardened seats installed and the constant valve adjustment became a thing of the past. If only the plethora of other issues that plagued that piece of shit car were so easy...
Anyway, Some people like working on engines, I get it. It's up to you. Adjust away. Enjoy it. Have fun.
There's just too much what the f@$k in this thread to know where to begin...
--BikerGeek
SacMikes valves on his 2005 were out of spec because he hadn't had them checked. Ended up burning a valve on the way to SWFOG in Toas. He ended up leaving his bike in Albuquerque at BobbyJ's. They fixed it and he rode home, but I think it cost him $600. Screw that. Maintenance is required for a reason.
HotRodZilla wrote:SacMikes valves on his 2005 were out of spec because he hadn't had them checked. Ended up burning a valve on the way to SWFOG in Toas. He ended up leaving his bike in Albuquerque at BobbyJ's. They fixed it and he rode home, but I think it cost him $600. Screw that. Maintenance is required for a reason.
Probably going to get myself banned from this place for disagreeing about valves here too huh?
There's just too much what the f@$k in this thread to know where to begin...
--BikerGeek
HotRodZilla wrote:SacMikes valves on his 2005 were out of spec because he hadn't had them checked. Ended up burning a valve on the way to SWFOG in Toas. He ended up leaving his bike in Albuquerque at BobbyJ's. They fixed it and he rode home, but I think it cost him $600. Screw that. Maintenance is required for a reason.
Probably going to get myself banned from this place for disagreeing about valves here too huh?
Why would that be? Everything has been pretty civil. I don't know enough to argue one side or the other...but I always try to learn something. I'd have to learn and be convinced of an awful lot before I would forego an engine maintenance item that the mfr recommends. Can you blame me?
Edit: what I did to my FJR? I cleaned it for the second time since getting back from the Ramble. It's clean...but it's not Allen_C clean yet.
It won’t be disagreeing about valves that get you banned here.
Come to think of it, if Wheatie hasn’t gotten banned yet, you are prob good.
As for the valve check thing, I will always check the them. If not checking results in a failure, it’s gonna be a big expense. If you check them and they do not need anything adjusted, then it cost you way less money.
Better to have it checked and not needed then not check and realizing you need it.
Kinda like gun ownership. Better to carry a gun and not need it than not carrying one and needing it.
Also like believing in God and there isn’t one than not believing in God and God exists.
Maybe I should throw a political reference in here too. Make it a trifecta of shit not to say.
Oh yeah, back to the valves, check them. If you don’t and your motor is ruined we might make fun of you for not doing it.
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HotRodZilla wrote:SacMikes valves on his 2005 were out of spec because he hadn't had them checked. Ended up burning a valve on the way to SWFOG in Toas. He ended up leaving his bike in Albuquerque at BobbyJ's. They fixed it and he rode home, but I think it cost him $600. Screw that. Maintenance is required for a reason.
Probably going to get myself banned from this place for disagreeing about valves here too huh?
Why would that be? Everything has been pretty civil. I don't know enough to argue one side or the other...but I always try to learn something. I'd have to learn and be convinced of an awful lot before I would forego an engine maintenance item that the mfr recommends. Can you blame me?
Edit: what I did to my FJR? I cleaned it for the second time since getting back from the Ramble. It's clean...but it's not Allen_C clean yet.
It was a joke. I got banned from the other place with a total of seven posts because of a conversation very similar to this.
"Inside humor is like food, not everyone gets it."
- Joseph Stalin
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There's just too much what the f@$k in this thread to know where to begin...
--BikerGeek
I see his point, it's not wrong. That zero clearance one is a total anomaly. Maybe seen one more that was .001 below minimum but not a panic because it still has .005 clearance. That won't burn a valve. SacMike's, if it burned... musta been zero clearance or there's more to the story. To wear down .005 is total anomaly. All I say is once you do that first check, we take care of that .001-.002 break-in, no worries if set to nominal+. As for the theory of minimum vs. maximum, it's true, however, none of us know how much power we're gaining/losing.... not a concern for me, small taters, I'm not on the drag strip trying to squeeze every drop out of it. And y'all know that if Silverback gets banned, this world will not be nearly the same without him, but I am in favour of a good piling on just for the hell of it.
Keep yer stick on the ice........... (Red Green)
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can sure muffle the sound.
raYzerman wrote:I see his point, it's not wrong. That zero clearance one is a total anomaly. Maybe seen one more that was .001 below minimum but not a panic because it still has .005 clearance. That won't burn a valve. SacMike's, if it burned... musta been zero clearance or there's more to the story. To wear down .005 is total anomaly. All I say is once you do that first check, we take care of that .001-.002 break-in, no worries if set to nominal+. As for the theory of minimum vs. maximum, it's true, however, none of us know how much power we're gaining/losing.... not a concern for me, small taters, I'm not on the drag strip trying to squeeze every drop out of it. And y'all know that if Silverback gets banned, this world will not be nearly the same without him, but I am in favour of a good piling on just for the hell of it.
Yeah.
Burned valves don't happen suddenly. There is normally plenty of warning. But, too tight will cause it. Helped my dad replace the cylinder on a Crack-a-nental aircraft engine for this problem once. The owner said it had been running rough for the last couple hundred hours. On a f'n airplane! Sheesh.
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There's just too much what the f@$k in this thread to know where to begin...
--BikerGeek
