What did you do to your FJR today?

[Road Runner]

This set was ordered from Amazon; same as the set from 2023, and 2018 before that. Picture below is 2 of the old ones and the 4 new ones (right before I removed the caps).

Where did you buy the NGK spark plug? Widespread reports of counterfeit NGK spark plugs being sold on eBay and Amazon.

Food for thought. Those plugs (if iridium) can easily go 50k-100k miles so you could change them less often, maybe every 5-6 years. I do mine at valve check interval of 50k-60k miles. Although, if I'm in there sooner I have been known to do them sooner. Or at least pull one to see what it looks like.

[Hppants]

Man - that could have gone really bad. I'm glad you got the piece out. Is there any chance any bits of ceramic or _____ fell into the motor, and if so, are you gonna just let it blow out through the valve openings?

IIRC, you have a small camera - maybe send it into the hole to just look around?

[extrememarine]

The order shows "sold by OverstockDirect"

In the pictures I have, none of the indicators from the article you posted are present to my eye, but that doesn't mean what I have is safe. The one I bought locally was in the same style box, etc.

Leaving for Indy for work this morning; I have all week to fret about pulling the other 3 and replacing them...

Thanks for the details. Were there cases of the CR8E being counterfiet as well? (link discusses CR9E)?

This set was ordered from Amazon; same as the set from 2023, and 2018 before that. Picture below is 2 of the old ones and the 4 new ones (right before I removed the caps).

Where did you buy the NGK spark plug? Widespread reports of counterfeit NGK spark plugs being sold on eBay and Amazon.

The next question, "Was it 'Sold by Amazon', 'Fulfilled by Amazon', or a 3rd party via Amazon?"

There are a number of websites with information on how to distinguish genuine from counterfeit spark plugs. This is one:
https://www.ngkntk.com/newsroom/blog/emea/fake-or-not/

[FJRoss]

FWIW, NGK does NOT recommend the use of anti-seize on their sparkplugs... I used to use it but don't anymore. Haven't had a problem either way and haven't used a torque wrench. YMMV

I expect that the feeling of the ratchet slip was the plug cracking...
From the NGK website.
https://ngksparkplugs.com/en/resources/ ... park-plugs

"Things You Should Know About Spark Plugs
1. Anti-seize

NGK spark plugs feature trivalent plating. This silver or chrome-colored finish on the threads is designed to provide corrosion resistance against moisture and chemicals. The coating also acts as a release agent during spark plug removal. NGK spark plugs are installed at the factory dry, without lubrication or anti-seize.

Anti-seize can act as a lubricant, altering torque values up to 20 percent, increasing the risk of spark plug thread breakage and/or metal shell stretch. Thread breakage can sometimes involve removing the cylinder head for repair. Metal shell stretch changes the heat rating of the spark plug and can result in serious engine damage caused by pre-ignition. Do not use anti-seize or lubricant on NGK spark plugs. It is completely unnecessary and can be detrimental."

[Toter]

Houston, we have a problem...



I carved out some time to continue the pre-season routine. Today's tasks included flushing fork cartridges and reassembly, changing out spark plugs and maybe a coolant flush and fill. I pulled the tank and removed the spark plug wires, blew off the top of the valve cover to keep the garbage out of the cylindars. Pulled the plugs with no problem. Prepped the new ones with anti sieze and removed the end caps. #4 & #3 went in smooth as butter. #2 when in, then something felt "off". A subtle pop, or slip - like the ratchet skipped a tooth. I slowly backed out the spark plug. I cleaned the anti seize off it, and it looked fine - no visible indication of something being off. I thought that maybe there was something in the threads of the cylinder - so I hit it with the shop vac to make sure; visually, it looked clear. I took a new spark plug and ran it into #2 - butter smooth. I took that last spark plug and threaded it into #1. It snugged and as I put a bit of torque to it with my stubby ratchet, it popped and the ratchet spun freely. Rut-Roh...

I lifted the socket out and found the broken spark plug.



This was a brand new NGK CR8E-IX. It's not like I was using a 20v Dewalt Impact driver or 1/2" breaker bar to install them. I took a walk to the corner store, grabbed a snicker's bar (you're more angry when you're hungry...) and a can of coke.

Comfort food ingested, FML texts sent - now let's get serious...

I took one of the old spark plugs and cut it at the base of the threads. That let me test fit extractor bits on the bench to confirm exactly which size to use. The straight flute 1/4" extractor seemed to fit best; A 1/4" drive extension end if on it perfectly, allowing me to rotate it with a 1/4" wrench. I gave it 2 firm taps and put the wrench on it. I use anti sieze on the threads every time, and that broken peice backed out smoothly.

Holy crap - That could have been so much worse! But why the hell did a brand new spark plug break so easily? You can see the stubby ratchet I was using - I've always done spark plugs this way; snug them with that stubby, then tighten with my regular 3/8" ratchet.

NGK is suspect these days if you ask me.


These were pulled from a 23 BMW R1250 GSA at 11,500 mi., they are the OEM NGK Iridium plugs. Have seen other pictures where the small piece of iridium is welded on is burned 3/4 through with the small cylinder just hanging by a small sliver. Maybe NGK has cheaped out, and suspect.

[FJRoss]

NGK is suspect these days if you ask me.


These were pulled from a 23 BMW R1250 GSA at 11,500 mi., they are the OEM NGK Iridium plugs. Have seen other pictures where the small piece of iridium is welded on is burned 3/4 through with the small cylinder just hanging by a small sliver. Maybe NGK has cheaped out, and suspect.

I saw some of those on ADVrider. Not sure if it was due to an NGK quality issue or BMW specifying an inappropriate plug (maybe both). In any case, there was definitely a problem with those plugs in some boxer twins. Lately, I've gone back to the conventional NGK plugs on my 2011 FJR.
Counterfeit sparkplugs (as well as counterfeit Lithium batteries) have been a big problem on Amazon, eBay and the like.

[Toter]

NGK is suspect these days if you ask me.


These were pulled from a 23 BMW R1250 GSA at 11,500 mi., they are the OEM NGK Iridium plugs. Have seen other pictures where the small piece of iridium is welded on is burned 3/4 through with the small cylinder just hanging by a small sliver. Maybe NGK has cheaped out, and suspect.

I saw some of those on ADVrider. Not sure if it was due to an NGK quality issue or BMW specifying an inappropriate plug (maybe both). In any case, there was definitely a problem with those plugs in some boxer twins. Lately, I've gone back to the conventional NGK plugs on my 2011 FJR.
Counterfeit sparkplugs (as well as counterfeit Lithium batteries) have been a big problem on Amazon, eBay and the like.

The tips eroding off has also been seen on NGK plugs, not OEM. I have gone back to using the conventional double electrode plugs that were used in the R1200's. BMW calls to change them at 12k mi. intervals anyway. Good thing they are very easy to access and change.

[FJRoss]

NGK is suspect these days if you ask me.


These were pulled from a 23 BMW R1250 GSA at 11,500 mi., they are the OEM NGK Iridium plugs. Have seen other pictures where the small piece of iridium is welded on is burned 3/4 through with the small cylinder just hanging by a small sliver. Maybe NGK has cheaped out, and suspect.

I saw some of those on ADVrider. Not sure if it was due to an NGK quality issue or BMW specifying an inappropriate plug (maybe both). In any case, there was definitely a problem with those plugs in some boxer twins. Lately, I've gone back to the conventional NGK plugs on my 2011 FJR.
Counterfeit sparkplugs (as well as counterfeit Lithium batteries) have been a big problem on Amazon, eBay and the like.

The tips eroding off has also been seen on NGK plugs, not OEM. I have gone back to using the conventional double electrode plugs that were used in the R1200's. BMW calls to change them at 12k mi. intervals anyway. Good thing they are very easy to access and change.

If that was happening, I would also stay away from the NGK. I don't think I would like to have an extremely hard iridium nugget loose in the cylinder. With luck it might pass out the exhaust valve right away - otherwise it could score the cylinder wall pretty badly. I haven't heard of excessive erosion or undercutting on the NGK's CR8EIX in Gen II bikes.

[raYzerman]

The danger with Iridiums is you're likely to neglect them... use anti-seize at least on the first 3 threads... just look at Toter's pics of the carbon that has wicked up into the threads just inside the head..... if you don't use anti-seize, at least remove them at some shorter interval to keep them from getting "locked" in there with carbon and ripping out threads when you try to remove them.

Lotsa discussion on whether or not to use Iridiums... yes in cars when you can hardly get at them in the first place, most come with them now. For most bikes, nothing wrong with conventional plugs, they get fired every stroke, so twice as many firings as car 4-strokes. I think Gen3 fires every other stroke since they have coil on plug.

Conventional plugs are cheap, some bikes come with Iridiums now too..... you can default to what the owner's manual calls for.

[Toter]

I haven't heard any complaints from FJR forums either on this tip erosion problem. The R1250's are a 12.5 to 1 compression ratio motor with knock sensors. I'm sure higher compression has something to do with it. All these bikes are tuned extremely lean to meet Euro X standards, depending on year. I heard complaints of pinging from some people when the 1250 came out in 2019, but not recently. The pictured plugs were from my buddy's bike. He drives it pretty hard, meaning he likes to flog it when given the opportunity. He always uses premium fuel. In my opinion, no way this should be happening. At the 12k service, I installed the same Iridium plugs, NGK, not BMW/NGK. It will be interesting to see them at the 24K interval. I should have him come up, so we can pull them and see how they look. I think he's getting close to the 18k oil change. We'll check them then.

[raYzerman]

IMHO, tip erosion to that extent is crazy. Shouldn't matter what fuel, etc. It should be the ground electrode wears, not the tip.

[Toter]

IMHO, tip erosion to that extent is crazy. Shouldn't matter what fuel, etc. It should be the ground electrode wears, not the tip.

I agree, but they come off right where the small iridium cylinder is welded on. In the past maybe the weld was not exposed. Less iridium = less $$.

[Toter]

IMHO, tip erosion to that extent is crazy. Shouldn't matter what fuel, etc. It should be the ground electrode wears, not the tip.

Here's another picture off one almost gone.

[wheatonFJR]

Not my FJR, but Duane's... installed a good battery, started it up, sounds great, brought it up to temp, drained the old oil and put in fresh oil. Tomorrow, gonna replace the brake and clutch fluids...hopefully he has speedbleeders! After that , changing out the front tire. Cleaning the bike is gonna be a real chore, but its got to be done. Might need expertise in washing and waxing that Black Cherry FJR, as that's not my forte. Lol.

[raYzerman]

On David's FJR (Coffeeman), I finished up fixing the broken fork and got all the front end back together, I'll update that thread. IAlso it got all new brake pads front and back, all ready to roll. Then he wanted some extra stuff done, so I got started. Guess what I'm up to next..... 85000 kms. on it.

[wheatonFJR]

On David's FJR (Coffeeman), I finished up fixing the broken fork and got all the front end back together, I'll update that thread. IAlso it got all new brake pads front and back, all ready to roll. Then he wanted some extra stuff done, so I got started. Guess what I'm up to next..... 85000 kms. on it.

Breaking a new spark plug during install?

[extrememarine]

paging d-eagle - he's the clean bike guru...

Not my FJR, but Duane's... installed a good battery, started it up, sounds great, brought it up to temp, drained the old oil and put in fresh oil. Tomorrow, gonna replace the brake and clutch fluids...hopefully he has speedbleeders! After that , changing out the front tire. Cleaning the bike is gonna be a real chore, but its got to be done. Might need expertise in washing and waxing that Black Cherry FJR, as that's not my forte. Lol.

[N4HHE]

FWIW, NGK does NOT recommend the use of anti-seize on their sparkplugs... I used to use it but don't anymore. Haven't had a problem either way and haven't used a torque wrench. YMMV

Yes, and when using anti-seize one must reduce the torque by something like 20%. There are tables with exact numbers. Lubrication allows greater tension in the threads for same amount of torque. So while you are not twisting it as tight, it is as tight.

[wheatonFJR]

paging d-eagle - he's the clean bike guru...

Not my FJR, but Duane's... installed a good battery, started it up, sounds great, brought it up to temp, drained the old oil and put in fresh oil. Tomorrow, gonna replace the brake and clutch fluids...hopefully he has speedbleeders! After that , changing out the front tire. Cleaning the bike is gonna be a real chore, but its got to be done. Might need expertise in washing and waxing that Black Cherry FJR, as that's not my forte. Lol.

Does Don make house calls? Lol, this is important!

[extrememarine]

Are you out of vacation time already? Oh, wait, you're one of "them"...

let me know if you need his address.

paging d-eagle - he's the clean bike guru...

Not my FJR, but Duane's... installed a good battery, started it up, sounds great, brought it up to temp, drained the old oil and put in fresh oil. Tomorrow, gonna replace the brake and clutch fluids...hopefully he has speedbleeders! After that , changing out the front tire. Cleaning the bike is gonna be a real chore, but its got to be done. Might need expertise in washing and waxing that Black Cherry FJR, as that's not my forte. Lol.

Does Don make house calls? Lol, this is important!