FJR Valve Adjustment

[fontanaman]

Let's do something different. Rather than ask for help post mistake how about asking for help or tips as I go forward with adjusting the intake valves on my FJR.

Some of this on What did you do to your FJR today and repeated here. I create a separate thread hopefully it will help others later, even me next time! Old age has a way with your memory.

The man know as ~G sent me a link to a comprehensive file on how to check the valves. Thanks ~G.

FJRoss sent me Yamafitter's Valve Check Spreadsheet. Thank you sir!

Ray sent info about valve adjustment on others have added thoughts here. Thank you all.

Details:

45,000 miles. First time a valve adjustment is required and I must pull the intake cam. The exhaust valves measured just fine.

Left to right intakes are 7, 6.5, 6.5, 6.5, 6, 5.5 or a tight 6, 7 and 7. It be nice to change out all of the darn intake shims to get them to 8 thousands if possible. I don't want to mess with this again.

I have not released the CCT. The engine is at TDC for #1 cylinder.

One thing missing from the comprehensive file above is a photo or description of how to secure the timing chain at the crank.

I have two wire ties at the crankcase end. The lower tie goes around the cam chain just below the cam chain guide on the left of the image below. The upper tie goes around the cam chain guide. It bothers me the chain guide prevents properly securing the cam chain. Is this wire tie set up adequate to prevent the cam chain from slipping a tooth at the crank?



I think getting this off What I did to my FJR Today will provide some focus on this topic. I reviewed the forum for other posts but didn't see anything.

Thanks again for those have helped and those that will. I really like this idea of posting for help before a mistake is made.

[N4HHE]

One thing missing from the comprehensive file above is a photo or description of how to secure the timing chain at the crank.

I have two wire ties at the crankcase end. The lower tie goes around the cam chain just below the cam chain guide on the left of the image below. The upper tie goes around the cam chain guide. It bothers me the chain guide prevents properly securing the cam chain. Is this wire tie set up adequate to prevent the cam chain from slipping a tooth at the crank?

The concern is two-fold: 1) don't want the chain to slip a tooth on the crankshaft sprocket, and 2) if it does slip you would like to know it did before buttoning things up. And if it does slip that you have a mark to put it back to.

The chain needs to be held up to keep on the bottom sprocket. I haven't done an FJR so I can't say what options you have.

To know if the chain slipped a paint mark or three would help. Perhaps you can mark pins on the chain adjacent to bolts or cast webbings? The perfect thing would be to put a dot on the chain and immediately adjacent on the sprocket, if that is accessible. Doesn't hurt to mark the camshaft sprockets too.

[raYzerman]

This would be more critical if you were only changing a CCT. In this case, you have the valve cover off, so it is easy to verify you did not skip a tooth.....
All that is needed is to keep a squeeze on the chain just above the crankshaft sprocket. Since you want to remove a cam, you'll need all the slack you can get above that dowel (the pivot point for the rear chain guide), which will occur when the CCT is retracted.

I normally have one like in this photo, or even better, behind the trigger wheel.



As well, if I am removing a cam, I zip tie at the cam sprockets.



You have to choose your poison, imperial or metric. My preference is to use metric to avoid all the conversions, as the shims are all metric..... the spreadsheet handles both, but metric is preferred. Your feeler gauges should have conversions etched on each blade, but some do not. With practice and experience, you can call a sloppy six .160mm etc. if you like, while a tighter 6 you might call .150mm. Right or wrong, it can get a shim calculation closer, e.g., ProX shims are available in .0025mm increments (RockyMountain ATV), depending on your chosen level of precision.

.005" = .128mm
.006" = .152mm
.007" = .178mm
.008" = .203mm
.009" = .229mm
.010" = .254mm

Cam rolled aside to access the buckets......

[Hppants]

I zip tie the cam chain like Ray does (perhaps he showed me way back in the day).

As Ray points out, the zip tie you have will not allow the chain to slack enough to get the camshaft out.

So, clip that one and before you re-zip it.

1. Rotate the motor so that you can put a paint mark on BOTH cams on the timing marks. It's hard to see them on the outside when you are going back together.

2. Return to #1 TDC (EXTREMELY important).

3. Zip tie as Ray's pics show.

4. rags or paper towels go into EVERY single oil hole and passage to prevent anything from falling down there.

5. Before you Loosen the chain, put a piece of painter's tape over all of the holes. After you break the cover bolt loose, use a telescoping magnet (fishing tool) to unscrew the bolt. Hopefully the magnet will stick to the bolt and it won't go down into the abyss (frame). After you remove the cover bolt for the chain tensioner adjuster, cut a slot in it with a dremel tool or hack saw. It will make it easier to start going back together.

6. Do one cam at a time. I use an old cookie sheet to place the cam bearing covers in order with the same bolts as they appear on the head.

7. I found the spreadsheet not very helpful. Easier just to take your measurement before, then use a micrometer to measure the shim and figure out where to go from there. The "hot cams" shim kits are in 0.05 mm increments, so if the loose end of the spec is more than that amount away, you will have to either get a specific shim from Yamaha or online, or sand the shim.

8. Tighten the cam bearing covers in intervals. Obviously, torque everything.

9. I remove the cam cover gasket and clean/dry everything, including the gasket. Then I take a dab of Red RTV and put it in a few spots on the gasket, and especially where the "1/2 moons" meet the flatter surface of the gasket. Then leave it to dry for 4-ish hours. This will make it easier to install without the gasket getting separated from the cam cover.

10. Before installing the cam cover or the timing cover, rotate the crank CLOCKWISE 4 revolutions to confirm timing marks are good.

[raYzerman]

If you are only changing a couple of shims, remove only those buckets, but true the buckets are matched to the bores they sit in.

Make note, on the right end of the #3 camshaft bearing cap, there is a vertical line on the face. With the timing marks lined up, and if you look directly vertical, you will see a drilled hole in the cam lobe..... should line up with the line if all is good. Use this if you cannot or don't want to gunsight down the camshaft sprockets to look for the other marks shown in the FSM. It is dead accurate if you look straight vertical....

[Panman]

I've been running tight 6's on a couple of my intakes for a 120,000 mile's they haven't changed, ever.
Me I'd run everything tight, we used to pick up a tenth or two at the strip back in the day.
Got to remember that the factory play's it safe, you could probably run em 1 under and never have a problem.

[fontanaman]

First off I want to thank everyone for their responses. Here's somethings I did to avoid problems.

Plugged all the spark plug and coolant holes in the head with paper.

Used an permanent red marker to place a mark on the crankshaft timing plate and chain. This was useful as it helps understand if the chain moves or slips. I cleaned the oil off as best I could before applying the mark. I waited a few minutes then tried to rub it off with my finger without success.



I placed a red mark on both camshaft sprockets and on the chain.



Concern for dropping the CCT plug screw got me to thinking. I put a piece of aluminum foil on the inboard side of the CCT so if the screw fell it would hit the ground, not fall inside the frame. I got this idea from doing FJR oil changes where I used foil to cover plastic fairing.



Ray suggested using a magnet to catch the CCT plug screw. After loosening the screw with a wrench I used a finger to remove the plug screw using my other hand to hold the magnet beneath the screw. It fell onto the magnet. Perfect.



The blasted CCT will not lock after turning the screw clockwise. My inexpensive DR650 CCT locks in place. What gives? To hold the CCT in place I used wire ties. The head of the wire tie is in the screw driver grip slot.



With all the preparations complete I removed the camshaft retainers. Next I moved the camshaft then looked at the red mark on the crankshaft timing plate. The marks still aligned! Yes. Success is mine.

The wife had been gone all weekend and had dinner ready so it was time to spend time with her. I know what is good for me. I laid the camshaft back into place and will continue the work later. Next is to remove each intake bucket and record the shim size. I had no trouble moving the camshaft enough to gain access to the buckets.

Thanks again for your help.

[FJRoss]

As Ray and I both mentioned, don't mix up the buckets. They are not necessarily interchangeable.

No, the CCT doesn't lock. I have a long shaft screwdriver and the weight of a small pair of needle nose vice grips or a hemostat clamped on the shaft is sufficient to hold it.

[rbentnail]

Well, you're way past some of the suggestions I would have made. First would have been to go to mcmastercarr.com and buy some metric feeler gauges. Eliminating the conversions eliminates one place to make an error. Second I would have recommended Pro-X valve shims. The standard "kit" of shims comes in .05mm increments. As mentioned above, you can order Pro-X shims in .025mm increments, half of the other, so it's easier to hit the cam clearance you desire. Third, if you don't have one, get a telescopic inspection mirror. The cam sprocket timing marks are hard to see without one. Fourth, be sure, no matter what, to check and double check all 3 timing marks. Time and time and time again over the years we've seen people screw up the timing by trusting tiewraps and sockets. They're fine to use but not good enough to trust. Check the timing marks, it's the ONLY way to make sure you reassembled correctly. I can't stress this enough.

eta: if you don't have one, a digital slide caliper is helpful The first time I removed OE shims they weren't marked so I had to measure them. I also found that both Hot Cams and Pro-X replacement shims measure exactly what is etched on them.

[fontanaman]

Today I removed each bucket, one at a time, recorded the existing shim size and put the bucket in it's original spot. With the data in hand it was easy using Yamafitter's spreadsheet to identify the needed shims. Two shims can be reused in different positions and I ordered Pro X shims from Rocky Mt ATV and MC for $1.95 each so I could get the clearance I want.

The parts will be here in 2 days.

Things are going well.

[fjrob]

I have a Ray for this.

[Steel_Gin]

Curiosity question since we're talking valve checks. Would there be any benefit of having all of the valves on the exhaust side adjusted, with .230mm being your target, to be within .010mm or tighter of each other even though the measurement shows they are within the acceptable range? Then the same question for the intake side, with .200mm being your target, getting them all within .010mm of each other or tighter? Would doing that on the exhaust and intake sides get rid of the buzziness in the handlebars or any other benefit to doing that?

[raYzerman]

In theory, uniform valve clearances should lessen vibes and each cylinder should perform evenly..... there are however factors that will not let you get all the vibes out.....

In practice, I did just that on my project '06 (2014 engine, less than 2k on it, using '06 electronics/TB's), and also on my '14...... my butt dyno said the '06 did run smoother and had less vibes... but I had no baseline except other FJR's. The '14 was also an improvement, just not quite as much IMHO. If you're up for it, go for it.

If anyone knew how to cure all the vibes on an in-line four, he'd be rich.

[fontanaman]

Shucks these days sport/touring bikes seem to be two or three cylinder models so it is perhaps a bit excessive to be concerned about four cylinder vibration due to valve adjustment.

Heck the available after market shim sizes prevents uniform adjustment.

Today my parts arrive. Kudos to Rocky Mt ATV/MC. 2 day ground delivery, amazing.

[fontanaman]

When I started to install the shims I quickly found I screwed up the order failing to order two shims. Of course they were the 1.875 shims aka the 1/2 size increment shims. One local dealer had one 1.900 shim but not two, so I place another online order. Sigh. I am pissed at myself. All will be well soon.

Things are going well less the order snafu.

[FJRoss]

When I started to install the shims I quickly found I screwed up the order failing to order two shims. Of course they were the 1.875 shims aka the 1/2 size increment shims. One local dealer had one 1.900 shim but not two, so I place another online order. Sigh. I am pissed at myself. All will be well soon.

Things are going well less the order snafu.

Sand the shim to the desired thickness using carbide paper (wet) on a flat surface. I have done this a number of times. Start with 220 grit and finish with 400. Figure eight motion with the shim under your index finger. Check frequently - takes maybe 10 minutes per shim, depending on how much has to come off. Micrometer is most accurate to check progress but a digital caliper is sufficient and much faster if you have good technique. Practice measurement with known shims or feeler gauges. Shims are not surface hardned. Sand the side with the numbers do the shim can't be mistaken - numbers sand off quickly.

[fontanaman]

The second order for shims will not arrive till Thursday. Nuts. So I looked at the spreadsheet again and moved some shims around. After update the spreadsheet indicated the least clearance was .007 in. Good enough for me.

So I replaced and moved all the shims. No problem. Put the intake camshaft back in, released the CCT and cut the wire ties holding it all together. I move the crankshaft around a few times then checked the valves. All was good with clearances of .075 to .008 in except 2 left which came in at .006, the spreadsheet said is should be .007. Nuts. But it is withing tolerance so I decided to leave it alone and began buttoning things up.

The plug screw for the CCT sure is a pain to install. I had tape over the frame hole facing the CCT. I used aluminum foil to guide screws to the ground when dropped. I had to use a finger from below and a finger from above to get it going. The upper finger finally got the bolt on the hole, held it in place, while the lower finger carefully twisted the bolt until is started. If I can find a pencil magnet with an magnet end that would fit through the frame this job would be a lot easier.

I expect to have it running tomorrow. The only PITA remaining is installing the valve cover - just got to make sure the gasket dog ears seat into the head.

Update: I found a telescoping pencil magnet on Amazon with a diameter of .321. The frame slot for accessing the CCT is .380.

[Panman]

Jim, I always use a product called Right Stuff. When it sets it is as rubbery as the original gasket material, I use it sparingly to set the gasket into place on the valve cover and let it sit over night. Same gasket is in place at four valve checks now and never a problem. Used the same process on the S-10 which make the FJR look like a cake walk.

[Festus]

Micrometer is most accurate to check progress but a digital caliper is sufficient and much faster if you have good technique. Practice measurement with known shims or feeler gauges. Shims are not surface hardned. Sand the side with the numbers do the shim can't be mistaken - numbers sand off quickly.

Thank you for posting that. It makes me chuckle when people online talk about measuring things with calipers and being accurate to .0005" of a dimension using their $14 digital calipers. Most of those aren't even close to being that accurate or repeatable. I've measured millions of parts over the years, many extremely accurately, and when accuracy matters, the calipers go back to the tool box and better tools come out.

Most any measuring tool is only accurate if you calibrate it, and calibration requires controls. Opening a package from Harbor Freight and using it immediately and preaching that your measurement is highly accurate because the digital readout says so isn't the best procedure for producing accurate results Oh, and add the fact that you measured them when it's 90 degrees outside

[wheatonFJR]

Yes.

The basic industrial knowledge in America is disappearing from lack of use.