Wouldn't start.......then it did

[2WheelJon]

I have a 2007 FJR with 20,000 miles on it. It has a new battery and the connections on it are tight. The ignition switch, ECU and "spider" ground recalls have been done. A week ago I went for an hour ride. The bike then sat for an hour. It would not restart. Jumping it caused the engine to crank with the key off. I turned the key on, the engine ran for a few seconds and then died. It would not restart. I let it sit for 30 minutes and then the bike started and ran fine.

Bringing it home I found error codes 12, 14 and 30. I'm going through the bike now trying to figure out what happened. Any help, suggestions, hints, etc would be appreciated.

[FredandJeannesRacer]

I’ve heard of the ignition switch replacement going bad, although I haven’t experienced it.

[extrememarine]

Ground Spider - even though the recall was done. I had one go in my 2009, well after the recall was completed.

Let's see what the smart people say...

[FJRoss]

Did you look into the Code #14 that I mentioned on the other forum? (And the referenced thread for this issue)You didn't respond to that post.

Clear the codes and see what comes back. Could be plumbing to the MAP sensor blocked. Could be a ground spider or ignition switch as well.

https://www.fjrforum.com/topic/178521-d ... nt=1439876

[raYzerman]

Yes, check MAP sensor for #14, causes stumbling idle, etc.
Codes 12 and 30 are what I call fake codes, likely not an issue, just ECU thought they were for a brief moment... clear them, see what comes back.
Not quite a ground spider issue, but yes even though recall, it only addressed spider #4... if you haven't ever looked at them, time to go over them all, see what condition, use OxGard or some other contact paste on them.

[2WheelJon]

Did you look into the Code #14 that I mentioned on the other forum? (And the referenced thread for this issue)You didn't respond to that post.

Clear the codes and see what comes back. Could be plumbing to the MAP sensor blocked. Could be a ground spider or ignition switch as well.

https://www.fjrforum.com/topic/178521-d ... nt=1439876

I’m having login problems on that other forum. I have to reset my password every time. Others on that forum say it’s due to my using the Firefox browser. It is the only site, of hundreds, that I can’t log into with Firefox. I decided to keep the web browser and give up on that forum. So I posted here.

Now, to answer your question, I haven’t had the time to check but your answer is appreciated and, the second I do have the time, I will follow your directions. Thanks.

[2WheelJon]

I will check the spider issue, even though the recall was done. Can folks suggest exactly where on the bike I should look. There’s lots of wires. Knowing where the ground issues are would help.

Thanks.

[raYzerman]

The easy stuff first and more likely a problem.... the MAP sensor is located on top of the throttle bodies, left of center, held on with two screws. There is an electrical connector to the front and a vacuum line underneath. Remove the vacuum line and check there is no gummy build-up blocking the nipple and check the hose is clear. When blocked, the ECU doesn't get a proper signal.... may cause hard starting but usually poor idle.

I'm attaching the ground spider circuit pic.... The recall addressed #4, which carries the accumulated heavy ground load from most all the others. However, S8, S7 carry heavy loads like headlights and windshield, picking up more ground load at S6... all of these wires are small and a tad undersized for that. Typical symptoms of failing are gauges sweeping unexpectedly, high beam indicator on when it shouldn't be, windshield motor not working. You didn't mention any typical symptoms, so likely not the issue.

Jumping it isn't normally an issue. Cranking with ignition off potentially means a faulty/dirty intermittent ignition switch. Some have removed it and cleaned the contacts in the bottom, there was an ignition switch recall way back involving Gen1 and '06-'07. You could also check the 4-way connector that plugs into the starter relay, ensure all is clean there, nothing bridged with corrosion.

[2WheelJon]

This is very helpful. Thanks much. Can you tell me where on the bike these various ground points are? I know the bike fairly well but could use some help pinpointing the location of each ground point.

Thanks again.

[extrememarine]

**Edit to add pictures below**

I'll look up the locations that coordinate with locations when I get a few minutes unless someone beats me to it. That said, the one that failed on my '09 was located under the left side panel, basically under and behind the glovebox. It was burnt and corroded - I saw the off color as soon as I got the side panel off. I had checked / cleaned these about 2 years prior. I'm pretty sure it was the S6. I think I have pictures as well that I'll look for tonight and post.

Aside from the S6 junction, the S4 was the other common failure point, which is under the tank in the forward left side of the engine bay.

This is very helpful. Thanks much. Can you tell me where on the bike these various ground points are? I know the bike fairly well but could use some help pinpointing the location of each ground point.

Thanks again.

From spring 2017.

Here is what the block looks like that the ground wires go into.


Here is the metal bridge or spider that connect the wires that go into the plug above.


Here is what it looks like when you decide to check everything. You DO NOT have to take the entire nose off to get to S6(left side under glove box) or s4 (under tank).

[raYzerman]

Approx. locations are noted on the chart I posted. You can get to most, but very helpful to have side fairings off to come up from underneath. Minor one by the glovebox carries virtually nothing... two in the engine bay.
In the old days, Brodie sold a harness that connected them all to a common ground wire you took to the battery... 12 ga. wire out of each spider, I think joined into a 10ga.

But stop.... check the MAP sensor first.

[FJRoss]

Approx. locations are noted on the chart I posted. You can get to most, but very helpful to have side fairings off to come up from underneath. Minor one by the glovebox carries virtually nothing... two in the engine bay.
In the old days, Brodie sold a harness that connected them all to a common ground wire you took to the battery... 12 ga. wire out of each spider, I think joined into a 10ga.

But stop.... check the MAP sensor first.

The S6 is the one by the glovebox, I think. It has been a problem for quite a few (including on my '07).
Still, I agree that grounding issues are less likely to be the problem based upon symptoms and codes. That vacuum hose network attached to the MAP sensor is highly suspect and likely responsible for the Code 14. (Note: Blockage with dark goo typically between the sensor and where it joins the rest of the network) Some people have replaced the sensor but it is more likely to be a blockage in the line.

Ignition switch should be checked out. Wiggle the key if if you are having problems. It SHOULDN'T make any difference.

[extrememarine]

Any update on this - map sensor check out or plugged??

[Road Runner]

I have a 2007 FJR with 20,000 miles on it. It has a new battery and the connections on it are tight. The ignition switch, ECU and "spider" ground recalls have been done. A week ago I went for an hour ride. The bike then sat for an hour. It would not restart. Jumping it caused the engine to crank with the key off. I turned the key on, the engine ran for a few seconds and then died. It would not restart. I let it sit for 30 minutes and then the bike started and ran fine.

Bringing it home I found error codes 12, 14 and 30. I'm going through the bike now trying to figure out what happened. Any help, suggestions, hints, etc would be appreciated.

More info would be helpful.
-What were symptoms when it wouldn't start? Like, it didn't turn over when push start button, or just clicked, or turned over slow, acted like low battery, etc.
-Also you said jumping it caused the engine to crank with key off. Assuming you hooked jumper cables correctly, this would suggest you starter solenoid , or key switch is the culprit. Again maybe a little more description would be helpful. Did you push the start button or did it crank on its own when hooking up jumper?

[2WheelJon]

To all - thanks for suggestions. On vacation with the family. Will return to the garage and working on the FJR on Monday. Will report any news, progress or frustrations at the end of the day.

Road Runner - When I first tried to start it the starter began to turn then gave up the ghost. Further pushes on the start button engaged the solenoid (I heard it click) but that’s all. After that, nothing. I jumped it by attached the + jumper lead to the + terminal of the battery and the - jumper lead to the frame. The second I made the connection the engine cranked but didn’t start. I turn the key on and it started, ran for a couple seconds and died. Further jumping cause the engine to crank but it wouldn’t start (yes, the key was on). I let the bike sit for about 20-25 minutes after which it started. I turned it off to double-check and it started again. Both starts were quick and normal. I rode the bike home (50 miles) without incident.

I’ve begun tearing it apart looking for the problem. Hope that’s enough info.

[Road Runner]

Jon, sounds like you had a low battery is why it didn't turn over fast enough to start. Then the starter solenoid stuck closed (from trying to start with low voltage), so as soon as you put voltage to the battery it started to turn over.

I know you said its a new battery. Did it have a full charge when put it in? Do you have anything hooked to it that is drawing voltage from the battery ? If not then check for a draw on battery with everything off, and make sure the bike is charging while running.

Keep an eye on the solenoid. If it clicks or sticks closed again then replace it. If it actually stuck closed and let current thru it without activation then I would just replace it, my opinion.

I'm sure others on here will have some good ideas also. Good luck.

[2WheelJon]

Road Runner - The battery was fully charged when I went on my ride. Parked the bike after 50 miles. About 45 minutes later went to start it and the problems I described happened. Let it sit for 25 minutes and the bike started up and road fine - no issues at all. Got it home and it started again, no issues.

I know a low battery could be the cause of the problem but the fact that the bike "came back to life" after sitting 25 minutes makes me thing the batter is fine and there is a connection somewhere that's the problem. I do agree with you about the start solenoid and will check that out.

[mcatrophy]

Road Runner - The battery was fully charged when I went on my ride. Parked the bike after 50 miles. About 45 minutes later went to start it and the problems I described happened. Let it sit for 25 minutes and the bike started up and road fine - no issues at all. Got it home and it started again, no issues.

I know a low battery could be the cause of the problem but the fact that the bike "came back to life" after sitting 25 minutes makes me thing the batter is fine and there is a connection somewhere that's the problem. I do agree with you about the start solenoid and will check that out.

Could you have left it with the ignition set to "P"? Puts the parking lights on (and potentially hazards). Easy enough to do if you set the steering lock. Battery would recover some charge if left for your 25 minutes.
(Click on image for larger view)

[raYzerman]

Although 20k isn't a ton, who knows how many times it's been started..... and while one would not think a starter relay is gone at this point, given what's happened, I'd say look around for a new one... replace it and keep the old one as a "good spare". Then you won't have to be concerned about that part of it, maybe cheap insurance.

Battery should recover as mcatrophy says, don't know what's going on there.... on all my bikes I install a voltmeter that is wired live to see what the state of battery is with ignition off... put a switch in the circuit so you don't leave it on after you get home. This will allow you also to manage powered accessories such as heated gear, grips, aux. lights, etc. and monitor the charging system (not that the FJR's have a problem in general like some other lesser output stators).

The Versys I just bought has an OK battery, so I thought, but 5 years old.... once I hooked up the voltmeter, I saw my resting voltages were always 12.4V.... consistently too low, so I bought a new Yuasa. Consistently 12.9-13V now. Charging voltages always are good at 14.3. The old battery I use as a shop tester battery...

[2WheelJon]

OK guys, I ripped all the plastic off the bike. I checked the MAP sensor's connection -- clean. I removed all the vacuum hoses and checked them -- clean. I went through EVERY spider -- all clean, no corrosion, no signs of overheating. I checked the connector at the left front that's a problem. Also good. I checked for lose wiring at the ignition switch -- all good (had the recall done on it). I checked just about ever connector I could see and saw no signs of corrosion or over heating.

When I removed the battery I found all of its connections clean and tight. I do have several accessories (cruise control, GPS, ham radio) wired into the bike and I went through and clean up all of that wiring (it was pretty good already). All connections soldered and shrink tubed.

I put the tank and battery back on the bike, cleared all the codes (12, 14 and 30) and ran it for about 30 minutes. Shut if off, check and ..... no codes.

There's been several suggestion to replace the starter solenoid and that's about where I am at this point. Or bring in an exorcist.

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions.